Connection issues with Muse I/O


#1

Greetings,

I searched the forum and found similar problems but nothing that could lead me to a solution. This is on a Windows 8 machine. I’ve got the device paired just fine. It shows up in the devices. I have tried launching from the command line several times.

When it launches however I get…

Device to connect to: Muse
Connecting to Paired Device “Muse”: n/a

I always get “Connection Failure #” where # just keeps going up and it never connects.

I’ve used a variety of command lines with similar results.

muse-io --osc osc.udp://localhost:5001,osc.udp://localhost:5002

The device works fine on my android mobile so I don’t think it is the muse. I’ve also integrated neurosky mobile mindwave into my game (NeuroMage.net) and that device works fine with the bluetooth on the machine so I don’t think it is anything with the bluetooth on my PC. I’m putting out another alpha build soon and I’d really like to start offering support for the Muse if possible so any help getting this figured out would be great.

Update 1:

Did several reboots… Launched command line as administrator. Unpaired and re-paired several times. Turned off my phone’s bluetooth just in case. Removed neurosky device just in case. Reboot again. Still same result. Is it possible to get the source code for the Muse I/O?


#2

Hi NeuroMage,

What happens if you try specifying the device, e.g.

muse-io --device Muse --osc osc.udp://localhost:5001,osc.udp://localhost:5002

or

muse-io --device-search Muse --osc osc.udp://localhost:5001,osc.udp://localhost:5002

?


#3

Many thanks for your reply. That still didn’t find it… but after several more reboots and more importantly, changing up the USB ports… I now have it running. I’ve also been able to get it running on another gaming laptop as well so that is more encouraging and can start using it for testing and integration with the game.


#4

Many thanks Tom for your help and I can see you are a strong supporter for this product and do them a great service. Without your involvement there would be little chance of getting serious developers interested in the Muse.

So after more work with it today on various platforms the SDK appears far from 100% solid. Often in the middle of sitting there playing with the different visualizer settings in MuseLab it stopped displaying data. Checked the museio and sure enough it was trying to connect again. It showed connected in blue tooth settings. Cycled the power, removed the device and added it back, restarted museio. Finally moving the usb back the muse would pair again and I could get the data flowing once again. With the laptop it is easier to repair but I still have the same problems keeping it paired. My concern is that it isn’t so much anything we can fix on our end and instead is locked up in the handshake between museio and the bluetooth stack. I’ve also found if the visualizer is listening on the port, that can keep museio from coming up… I think.

For me the question now becomes when can we expect a full native SDK for PC and mobile devices?

I spent quite a bit of time working through getting NeuroMage running on the NeuroSky hardware so I know what it takes.When I first showed at the Neurogaming conference the interface I had in my game was crude and brittle. While not perfect, I now have a framework that works well for making sure all states of the device are managed and I can give the user clear feedback. So when it comes to the Muse, I now have to make a determination if I should keep working with the SDK as it is or wait until the final SDK is out. That is a lot easier to determine if I know we are looking at a matter of weeks, a few months, or if there is simply no guess. Is there soft date at least?

Perhaps Muse can offer an NDA agreement for interested developers and then open source Calm and the MuseLab so we can really start putting some things together for this device? With OpenBCI, Neurosky, Ifocusband and Emotiv things are getting crowded and developers like myself need to know that we are working with an ecosystem that encourages experimentation and open sharing of ideas. It’s hard to fathom that there is anything so proprietary in a bluetooth interface, the data readers, or the Calm app itself that is worth putting the potential development community for Muse on ice. Particularly if we are willing to sign NDA’s.

I like where this is going so don’t take my post here to be negative. I’d really like to support this in NeuroMage as the entire concept of the game is keeping the mind quiet and in control while chaos erupts around you. Control your mind, use your mind to learn your spells and then defeat your opponent. It’s a good fit and was really hoping to have Muse worked in by my next Alpha release at the end of January… now after real experience with this SDK I just can’t see it coming together anytime soon. So I’m just disappointed it looks a ways out before I can get Muse into the game.


#5

FYI – I had very similar reliability problems with Muse on Windows with a laptop’s built-in Bluetooth interface. When I switched to an external USB bluetooth adapter, it worked much more smoothly. I don’t see dropped connections on that system now, it works for tens of minutes without any glitches.


#6

Hi NeuroMage -
I’ve seen your game and it is awesome! Yes, I can give you some soft dates for the SDK releases. We are working to get the Android SDK out around the end of January and the iOS out at the end February. If you would like to get started with an Android library sooner than that (which is only a week away), you can sign something and get access to it. We could also do something similar so you can get early access to the iOS version. The desktop version would come out around the beginning of April. We definitely want to get developers working on the Muse, it’s a high priority for us. Since launching and getting such a good reception in the marketplace, things have been a little crazy around here.

As far as the bluetooth issues, we know of them and are working on them. Using these bluetooth dongles should give you a good experience:

Paul


#7

Paulb,

Many thanks for the kind words about the game. I’m looking very forward to including Muse support. I’ll be speaking at the Neurogaming conference on May 6th at the 4:30pm time slot and want to use the conference as an opportunity to announce full Muse support.

http://www.neurogamingconf.com/#!schedule/c1kw7

I would in fact very much like to have Muse support, even if it is limited, up and going to demonstrate at the Neurogaming conference.

That would give me about 45 days and I believe already from my experience with the hardware this is very attainable. As all of this hardware is still in development I completely understand the bluetooth issues and how it can get crazy. Any NDA’s that need signing I will sign.

All the best,

Greg


#8

Hi Greg,

Just visited your page, the game really looks fantastic !

Please, let us know when Muse support will be available.


#9

Hi Greg - We will make sure you have everything you need to hit the deadline for that conference. Also, an update on the iOS release - we are planning on having that out mid-April, but can give you an early access version.


#10

Hey Greg,

We can totally help you integrate Muse with Neuromage.

As you may already know, the native Muse library, LibMuse is now available for Android. LibMuse for iOS should be released officially very soon as Paul mentioned, but actually, as of very recently we have an early alpha build now that we can give you ahead of the conference! Be forewarned that the API will very likely change between the alpha and the official release.

The desktop version of LibMuse is in the pipeline after iOS, but at this time it’s not ready. However, Muse integration is still possible on desktop platforms using the Muse SDK Tools (primarily MuseIO). If you make a simple OSC interface to Neuromage, then it should be very straightforward to use MuseIO. Then, once the desktop version of LibMuse is available, you can just replace that OSC layer with LibMuse’s Bluetooth connection stuff.

Regarding the Bluetooth issues, there’s a good chance that those could be solved by a firmware update. If you create a Calm user account and provide us with the email address you used, we can get you an update. You can send me the email address in a private message.

So without further ado, here’s the link to the alpha iOS SDK:

[SIZE=16px][B]NOTE: THIS IS ALPHA SOFTWARE. THE API WILL CHANGE.[/B][/SIZE]

[U]LibMuse iOS 0.0.10[/U]

OS X
Linux 32-bit
Linux 64-bit
Windows


#11

All this is most excellent news and I really appreciate all the great support and encouragement. I’m determined to make this a wicked cool game for the Muse. It is also a great opportunity to test out much of this on the mobile platform. The game is in Unity 3D and I’ve brought builds to iOS and Android before but of course with the device interface/connectivity stuff there is some extra complexity.

There is a lot of research I need to do on my end so I can ask the right questions. A few months ago I was able on the PC to get the console app going and pull some data through it. The data stream itself is not all that different than what I consume with Neurosky but building up that stack and making it reliable for people to download and install without complex setup I saw was a ways off. Fortunately for the conference I’ll have some control over the environment so if I can have the Muse running it doesn’t need to be to the level of a point and click install application.

Many thanks.


#12

ok, so I have all the Muse I/O stuff going fine… can pull it into the Muse Lab as well. That is going good now. So what I’m hoping is that maybe someone how there has a Unity3D project on github or something that can pull that data in before I go down that road and re-invent the wheel there. I really only need the experimental/mellow and then optionally it would be good to have experimental/concentration. This will be for a demo at the Neurogaming conference. As I will be there to hand hold the management of the muse / io stuff and muse lab that won’t be a big issue for May 5.

There is a small chance I will have an android build in the days ahead but most of the really cool stuff is going to be on a big screen and using some real slick PC graphics. I’ve attached a picture of the new environment we are building around. The game now has minion’s you can conjure that fight across the battle field and tower defense (those are the diamond shapes) that can be powered using your mind to defend or attack other minions. Very excited about Muse support. Anything that can help me get this data stream from muse-lab into Unity3d will be greatly appreciated.

Edit: After looking at the data more I don’t think the experimental mellow and meditation is quite there yet to give real impressive results in the game. For the game, the most critical aspect is detecting relaxation and how calm the person can stay as the real time mage battle swirls. So I think I’ll do a baseline on alpha/beta vs theta/delta and then set a target of theta/delta increasing while less alpha/beta. Can anyone who has worked with this give me an opinion on the quality of the mellow/concentration algorithms?


#13

As time is getting close… if there is someone that thinks they can get this into Unity3D please email me at gregmoss@neuromage.net and give me a bid on what it would take. I’d really like to demo Muse support at the conference. We will probably be the only ‘big’ game there as you can see by the list of exhibitors. http://www.neurogamingconf.com/#!exhibitors/c1gbe


#14

Hey Greg,

Since the desktop version of libMuse hasn’t been released yet, probably the easiest thing for you to do is to use an OSC library for Unity. Personally I’m not a Unity developer, but some quick research led me to these possibilities:

UniOSC: https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/17658
OSC receiver for Unity: http://mikeheavers.com/main/code-item/osc_receiver_for_unity
UnityOSC: https://github.com/jorgegarcia/UnityOSC

You could also use a native OSC library, since Unity is just a wrapper for native code anyway. Pretty much every major programming language has at least one OSC library available for it: oscpack for C++, liblo for C, oscP5 for Java/Processing, etc.

Hopefully that helps!


#15

That was very helpful. That UniOSC looks easy to implement. I’ll give it a shot.


#16

Unfortunately I cannot answer your question, but was wondering if you could specify what it was about the experimental mellow and meditation that made you decide they weren’t “it”? What were the practical results in the game?

Also, if you could explain your reasoning for favouring increased theta/delta and reduced alpha/beta instead?


#17

We have the new 256Hz sampling headbands. We never had any issues connecting to Muse-IO under Windows10 using the older headsets. The new devices do connect using the Bluetooth settings, but Muse-IO can’t see them (no such paired device). These devices behave differently from the old because they don’t show up in Bluetooth on mobile devices - they only connect through the Calm app. So is there a new SDK required? We notice that the downloaded GA version is 3.4.1 from 2 months before the new devices were released.


#18

For those who are interested newer muses since ? referred to as Muse " 2016" have different Bluetooth protocol that is in the android sdk but not the windows. The Muse-io program for windows does not work with the current muse.