Surprise: Deep Meditation Result

Just sharing the experience.
I have practiced meditation as part of my method doing inward journey and God consciousness almost 10 years but I’m a newbie in Muse Technology.
Curious about what happens to my brain when doing that deep Meditation and when entering a state of deep inward awareness. So I am exploring my brain state using Muse Brain Sensing Headband. Surprise with the result !!

Deep Meditation

Just sharing my experience using Muse.

Thank you Muse
Regards
Widi

Wow! and well done Widi. Personally after 2 years my mind is calm all day and I fall asleep straight away only minutes after I close my eyes, if my body is ready. Id love to hear what changes 10 years have made to your life :star_struck:

Could my Muse session be effected by a Stress Hormone Imbalance
I too recently bought the Muse S headband but even though my mind is completely calm 99% of the day my results are quiet different but im thinking that I have an adrenal gland issue which is showing up on the Muse results. Im hoping you can help by answering a question bellow.

For the past 2-3 months ive managed to permanently quieten my mind, I do allow my thoughts to run if im getting excited with art or engineering design. But I feel that I am experienced enough to say with confidence that during morning muse sessions me and my mind have been calm for some seconds listening to birds etc when I would start to hear heavy rain for no reason, and as I was focussed at that time I was very sure that I should not be hearing rain. So I did some tests where I did intensive thoughts and even let myself to intentionally worry about loosing the fee for the Muse device as if id been ripped off “just as a test” but the muse could not detect that I was thinking or worrying.
It was about one week later before I came up with a theory surrounding my possible Adrenal gland issues. Basically the effects of a damaged adrenal are stress, depression and intensely worrying especially at night, but in respect to the Muse I would be woken very early due to a high dose of cortisol and even though still very tired after only 4hrs of sleep I cannot get back to sleep, eventually I would start my muse session and I would feel awkward each time in the morning, eager for the session to end. Only upon realising that my evening sessions would be pleasant did I realise it could be my adrenal gland issue.
Ive tried to contact Muse support and ive had two email replies but I really need a telephone conversation with someone who has EEG medical experience to confirm if the Muse can be effected by hormonal imbalances.
Im very pleased to see your results though, similar to mine without the peaks from hormones pulsing into the brain, maybe.

One question please: I practice the basic ‘follow the breath’ meditation where I focus on the feeling of the breath and when ive got lost in thought bring my attention back to the breath. My testing shows Muse cannot tell if im lost in thought though, as long as im calm and in a pleasant state the app thinks im calm. Can your Muse App detect if you have become lost in thought? (if you could get lost after 10 years practice :slight_smile: )

An other consideration crossed my mind. Their are meditations where you actually think in the practice like contemplate compassion or death, ive got a guided meditation on sorrow too. So how could the Muse detect being lost in thought during ‘follow the breath’ yet allow you to contemplate compassion and forgiveness during a different meditation? Perhaps its a different part of the brain that gets lost in thought than we use to contemplate compassion with?
It seems to me more likely that the muse senses heart rate, breath rate and movement with great success but when it comes to the brain its probably harder to work out what is going on. When the EEG was invented they thought it could detect if criminals were lying but the lying detector is not perfect and it strongly relies on heart beat and perspiration rather than if the brain is recalling memory or creating stories. I do wish someone from Muse could clear things up as to why im getting the anomalous readings. Where the rain response could be coming from if im sure im calm.

Thanks
ant…

Hi Anthony,
Thank you and good sharing from your experience using Muse, too. Instead, I might still have to learn a lot from you in using this technology :blush:.

Just sharing to you, my motivation for using Muse basically is to answer my curiosity and get better understanding on what happen when someone enters a deep meditation state. I was very inspired while reading an article where Muse was tested on several monks to understand the condition of their brainwave while practicing meditation. So, I bought Muse initially to better understand meditation in other point of view (science approach).

For me (at least according to my meditation practice), meditation is more about inner-self exercise rather than thought or mind training with the ultimate objective is finding the true self (who), understanding life (why, purpose), and getting closer to God. As far as I know, every culture and individuals have a different approach and goals to meditation. Meditation that I do is based on the influence of my religion background where meditation practices is focused on consciousness, heart, inner-spirit, and not on the thought or mind. By this method, thought and mind no longer becomes important. In my conception, consciousness has a much wider than the mind, is unlimited, so the mind will not be able to follow it. So, if we try to enter this heart consciousness, the mind will disappear by itself. That might be shown from the Muse result in my deep meditation that I shared previously.

So, my approach to meditation is not how to conquer and eliminate thought or mind because the fact is that the mind cannot be regulated, the more we try to confine it the more it will be wilder (monkey mind). It becomes tame by itself when we enter into the consciousness state. But, again, this is my opinion and the method I have been doing for the past 10 years, linking meditation to something more spiritual.

As far as I practice using Muse, this technology is quite acceptable (not reliable but acceptable). The results so far are quite consistent.
At this time, I even found some new insights from deepening meditation through measurements using this Muse. For example, here are Muse’s measurement results in meditation when I changed the focus from consciousness, heart, spirit to mind (see the spike as I trapped to calm my mind):

Insight:
It’s more often we feel calm, but actually not 100% calm. But if our consciousness is full, our inner spirit really surrenders to God, based on my experience so far, the mind will automatically calm down.

I apologize that I don’t delve into hormones and glands, and whether there are implications with Muse data that might be inaccurate. Maybe this is the right thing to ask the Muse team to help answer.

Again, thank you for your sharing. Happy to connect with you.

Regards
Widi

Hi Widi

Thank you very much for sharing with us, im not nearly as experienced as you and I know nothing about any other types of meditation than the ‘follow the breath’ that almost everyone teaches. I am very much interested in the self exploration thing but after listening to Ekhart Tolle and finding his advise of ‘just giving into enlightenment’ like its so easy LOL, now im thinking im ready to try something a little different, but please know that my use of English in describing meditative states is limited and ive had trouble properly communicating with other meditators in the past. In other posts I mentioned the ‘editor’, ‘ego’ and ‘thinker’ as three words which ive heard others use to describe what Buddhists and you call the ‘Monkey Mind’ of which is exactly what I meant, but this last few months I have found it amazing how useless the ‘monkey mind’ actually was to me and how much power I gave it because now its gone I know I never needed it.
I feel that my purchase of the Muse was probably the same as yours scientific research. I also was impressed with that Monk statement and I have also bought a TDCS device because I was excited about ‘The Flow’ state mentioned, but I must warn you the TDCS devices did work for me and the flow state is somewhat contrary to the calm of meditation, being like a shot of adrenalin, so I have set my device for ‘learning boost’ mode now.
That Monk statement was very interesting but imo and after my own experimentation and also not finding and practices relating to the Monks mind state in the Muse apps, I don’t think the Muse device can deliver anything close to what Steve Kohtler claimed, I feel the Muse is an interesting EEG doing its best to deliver any vaguely relevant info from an overly complex organ such as the brain which is doing way more than just thinking btw. Ive tested it with all sorts of thinking and other tests and as long as my heart rate and movement don’t change I can trick it into lying im calm, not that I want to but I need to know how accurate it is, so I was interested to see your results with different meditation practices but are they repeatable?? the cornerstone of science is 'repeatable results.

FYI im of no specific religion, I was Christened at birth but ive had an unusual pull towards Buddhism through movies such as Starwars and The Matrix, this probably sounds so immature. Anyway I had a profound experience where I died one time and was given the option to move on or come back, unlike a dream where you accept where you are I immediately though ‘where am I and why can’t I see or feel my arms’ at that point the voice came into my head, the voice sounded or felt like my thoughts but louder, but it definitely was Not me, when I heard it I was shocked and I knew how powerless and insignificant I was.
Im basically your average westerner, nothing particularly spiritual about me only now ive known for 20 years that their is something after death and ive been searching for what to do about it, but im fairly sure the answer is not in church for me anyway. I have no idea why out of all the important people in the world that are lost I had that experience because nobody would ever listen to me so I can’t spread ‘the word of God’. Anyway these questions are what im left with daily for the last 20 years. Similar to yours but each of our paths are our own.

I agree with you about the Muse results, they are acceptable, its probably the brain which is not reliable, scientists make it sound so simple but if you look at the Muse Direct app at what is going on at any time you quickly see that their is no one graph that is responsible for any one thing, its all a big mixup data, that’s probably why its easiest for scientists to see something in Monks because everything else is a jumble. The Muse has helped me narrow down the cause of me feeling odd in the morning, im not sure what I can do about it but future use will show me if its getting better or not. Did I mention Cortisol goes down during the day so my night time meditation is on average 88% calm.

Im very interested to hear if your change of focus during meditation can show a repeatable result, not just the spike but the reduction in calm. Im interested to hear if you moved at all or excited your heart because that’s especially interesting if its read that from just your brain?

I look forward to hearing from you
ant…

Hi Anthony,

Glad to hear your experience too. It turns out you have lots of experience not only on the Muse device and its applications but also individual experiences, such as having near death experiences. An experience that will definitely give you a different meaning, I believe.

Thank you also for TDCS information, I have not explored to that area yet. At the moment, I’m just starting to explore Muse with OptiBrain and OptiTrain.

Regarding Muse device for meditation, I usually use it only for calibrating purposes (short checking) and exploration. But during the actual meditation, I no longer use the Muse, because I really just want to focus on the meditation.

Trying to answer your question, here are some results from short meditation that I did this afternoon (3 different sequential time) that I tried to be measured using Muse. In my opinion, the results are quite consistent.

Note:
From the experience of meditation that is measured using Muse, this tool is sensitive enough to capture changes in brainwave, it is able to detect even small changes that occur from our mental state during meditation. Including the tension that generally occurs around the face and disharmony of breath that is usually caused by changes in mental state. This is very visible when deep meditation state is reached, I will hear a bird’s voice that is continuous. But when a little mental state changes, even if only for a fraction of a second, the sound of birds will disappear, even though, I’m still in the calm state. I learned a lot about this by this device.

I’m happy to be able to exchange experiences with you. Maybe you can also share your experience, especially your death experience … :blush:

If there is an interesting exploration of Muse that you are doing, appreciate if you may also share in this forum.

Thank you
Regards
Widi

Amazing! I’ve got a similar result. Today my muse-package arrived and I tried it immediately. This was my result:

The state I was in was like when I begin doing my normal meditations. Usually, after 20 mins or so I come into a full body bliss / awareness of the field - forgetting the boundaries of body. I will keep you updated to see if that state is different from the just calm entering state.

It is interesting to have a more objective measurement of how calm your brain actually is. But in my normal meditations I usually feel quickly when I enter into a non meditative state.

This is a quick summarize:

  • Look straight in front of you in your inner space (with eyes closed)
  • Becoming intensely aware of your awareness. (not intellectual - just a result after right focus)
  • Keep this state by reflecting back your awareness as long as you can…
  • Will eventually give rise to a state where you
  • Merge with the field and you will smile and everything will heal in mind and body (and optionally you can create your future by intending and visualize in this state - trancelike but fully aware / awake).

Nice to hear others experience when entering into deeper meditation…

Fao Jonas - well I think you win the award for calmest result and birds awarded lol Thanks for the instruction, I might get back to you about that.

Fao Widi - yes I would love to talk to you about that stuff, your actually the fourth or fifth person I’ve told, Ime it’s not for everyone so I didn’t mention what was said to me in the post but I’m very happy to tell you. Some people I’ve told almost can’t hear what I’m saying, perhaps it’s too deep or something, they either shrug it off as been info from a crazy person or quickly forget the entire conversation as one member of my family did, this in itself made me double sure the episode was real or authentic.
You can find me at anthonyhague dot com if you would like to contact me direct then we can work out the best way to communicate because even though my episode was very short their is so much to say about it and I’m sure your episode was the same and I’d like to hear everything you have to say too :blush:

I’ve been contemplating where to go with my info for so long but worried about what to tell people (4th noble truth). Listeners would no doubt worry about certain bits, like how existence without the body relieves us of bodily needs such as attachment, worry for loved ones.

Anyway I look forward to talking to you about this…

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Hii
anthony thanks for sharing your experience.
i’m also tried meditation and after 2 years my mind is calm.

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