Very calm on the app but the mind is racing


#1

I am currently achieving a streak of very high calm percentages for 20 min meditation, all in the range of between 92%-98% but I can notice that I am not focusing on my breath my thoughts are racing and I am with them. Does the headband work properly ? Has some one expirenced the same affects ?


#2

Some questions to make it easier to figure out what is going on:

Is this a change compared to before? That is, did your Calm scores look very different when you first started using Muse, compared to now?

When you say your mind is racing, does this show in terms of tension or movement in your body, in perspiration or elevated heartbeat? Would you say you are anxious during sessions? Are your thoughts mainly verbal or do you also get mental imagery?

Can you describe what happens in your mind during calibration? Is your mind space verbal, visual, both or neither?

What happens if you do breath counting for 5 minutes before you put on Muse and start your calibration?


#3

I often get objective scores that seem to differ markedly from my subjective experience.
I still don’t know what to make of it.

I think I have a good session and my score is low or vice-versa.

But the situation you describe seems very wrong.

If indeed your thoughts are racing and you are not focusing on your breath I don’t see how you can be achieving those kinds of very high scores for a 20-minute session.

I would try lowering session times and see how you do and then work back up gradually.


#4

Thank you for your replies.

To answer the question posted by amused to breath :

When I started with muse, my scores were lower then now, between 50-70%. At one point I used Internasel Low Light Laser Theraphy device, and since then all my scores where between 80-98%. The photos are showing the differnce that I had since using the lllt, and I had done about 50 sessions afterwards, almost all of them where without reaching the active zone, with the same pattern as seen in the picture - my mind did not move up and down quite as often.

I would say that during the meditation I had some level of anxious thoughts, which I could feel in my body as tension, most of them are verbal.

I would say that during calibration my mind is space verbal and visual sometime auditory, depends on the question asked during calibration. I was skipping meditation for a few days, and on the last attempt, with the update, I got a score of 78%. I never thought I will be happy to get a lower score.

When I sat down to meditate I did feel body tension and then tension thoughts would come up. It was surreal to listen to my thoughts talking rapidly while I can hear the birds in the background.

I will try to do short meditation and see how it will affect the scores.

I will try breathing 5 minutes before and I’ll see how it will affect the session.

I have also attached a photo from my last session yesterday.


#5

Hello Ori, I have a similar experience. When I use the Muse not being very tired/sleepy, I get “calm” percentages over 90% (see attached image). I wouldn’t say that my thoughts are “racing”, but I can certainly get away with thinking quite a lot without the Muse app noticing. I have been in touch with the Muse support about this, but it hasn’t been helpful in understanding what is going on so far. They say they will now reset my calibration history. I can’t see why that would be helpful, but we’ll see.

I started a Muse headband user forum on Facebook, if you are interested.


#6

Interesting. Do you have a link to the device you are using for the LLLT? Did you only use it once, or is it a daily thing?

I would say that during the meditation I had some level of anxious thoughts, which I could feel in my body as tension, most of them are verbal.

I would say that during calibration my mind is space verbal and visual sometime auditory, depends on the question asked during calibration. I was skipping meditation for a few days, and on the last attempt, with the update, I got a score of 78%. I never thought I will be happy to get a lower score.

When I sat down to meditate I did feel body tension and then tension thoughts would come up. It was surreal to listen to my thoughts talking rapidly while I can hear the birds in the background.

I will try to do short meditation and see how it will affect the scores.

I will try breathing 5 minutes before and I’ll see how it will affect the session.

I have also attached a photo from my last session yesterday.

Thanks for the reply and description!


#7

I too have been experiencing an streak of unusually high (99%) 20 minute sessions that i don’t feel are accurate. This is really making me question this device. I wish we could get some official answers on how to determine Muse’s accuracy.


#8

If indeed you are logging 99% and you are observing a lot of mind wandering or thinking or nodding off or something I too would like to know how you are getting a 99%. I have had several above 90 and generally I am getting these when subjectively, I feel I am having a fairly strong session.
i do think that the MUSE, as good as it is, is limited in what it can do.
Also there is the very large question of just exactly WHAT 'watching your breath" means to all of us and what we all think we are doing when we meditate.
Muse is measuring something … brain waves … but it probably is possible to generate alpha waves in ways that aren’t consistent with “watching your breath” whatever that might mean.
In other words low-alpha is not necessarily synonymous with “meditation”


#9

I don’t know if this is the posters device or not but it fits the description: http://vielight.com/

Wow. Just when I thought I had heard it all.

I would love to hear what people are saying about this device.

I am aware of transcranial stimulation devices like the focus but have concluded that they are mostly placebo with the effect being mild or not at all.

Never heard of this though.


#10

Hi sorry for the late replay. I took a some break from Muse as I did not get the affects I am looking for. I have started meditating with Muse again with the same results as before. My only explenation is that in my alpha state I have a lot of inner chat and my mind is not very quite. I will try to have longer meditation time in a hope that the chats will eventually subside and I will feel more centre. I will try to recalibrate Muse too.

I did use and I am still using the Vie light 810 every other day. It does have some noticeable affects on my meditations. When I took a break from lllt I have noticed that the session score and quality did went down, and I felt more uncomfortable to meditate.

Usually I feel uncomfortable to meditate, I have some intrusive thought and I feel a bit lost while meditating. I would love to hear a meditation expert opinion on that.

Do you feel the same while meditating ? Do you look forward for your next meditation session ?


#11

I have the opposite problem at times. When I feel that my mind is absolutely calm and clear and the storm sounds are at their highest. I was wondering if the MUSE device measure subconscious thought and perhaps that would account for the discrepancy that I’m experiencing.

As an experiment, I’ve read some very heavy passages from some of my favorite existential philosophers then went into a meditation session and cleared my head and experienced the phenomenon above. Not a very scientific experiment but thought it might shed some light.


#12

I’ve been meditating daily for more than four years, and my highest score (after three days) is 83%.
I think that in my case is pretty accurate, because my score is lower in the morning, before going to work, because I usually have the residual idea that I must match with my watch, and not being late at work. My experience makes me think the device works well.
My meditation is not focused on breath, mainly I meditate with a mantra and I fix my attention in the ajna chakra. I’ve tried focusing in the breath too only to see what changes, and it makes no difference to me.
Do you clean your sensors? Have you tried with another app, to see the raw data? Are you sure the sensors are operate properly and there is not some of them with no proper contact?


#13

“I will try to have longer meditation time in a hope that the chats will eventually subside and I will feel more centre.”

ori, meditation is not easy, it takes time
i would do just the opposite, i would shorten your time not lengthen it
i started with 3 minutes then 5 then 10 then 15 etc
if you get some success at 5 minutes, stay with 5 minutes until you are comfortable
5 minutes of strong meditation actually has an effect
don’t push yourself too hard

“I have the opposite problem at times. When I feel that my mind is absolutely calm and clear and the storm sounds are at their highest. I was wondering if the MUSE device measure subconscious thought and perhaps that would account for the discrepancy that I’m experiencing.”

bill, it may well be that you are actually reflecting on your meditation and that is causing the “storm”. in other words, when you are meditating and you note “my mind is clear right now” you have lost the meditation object and muse will respond with feedback


#14

Exactly same question i was about to post. I have been using muse from past 7 days.
Here are my scenarios:

  1. Meditating less than 11 minutes and it always shows between 85 - 99%
  2. I was playing with my baby with wide eyes open actively thinking for 10 minutes, it shown 87% — :open_mouth:
  3. 30+ minutes session shows between 70-90% always.
  4. Did session while watching Final Presidential Debate 89% calm :open_mouth: -
  5. Tried early in the morning shown 1% calm whereas i was super calm at 6:30 am
  6. One night I was about to met an accident but saved myself by pulling my car to the curb side that night i was really in tense that time i tried muse and it shown 80% and 91% for 8 mins and 3 mins respectively. at same time i checked this with my wife too and it shown 38% calm

I am really confused. I really love this product and i wanted to use this forever. I know, I always followed steps carefully at the time of calibration. I know I was not that much % calm as it was showing.
Please help and how can i be sure that these results are correct? I highly appreciate if anyone can help me on this. Thank you.

some samples:


#15

it seems to me that the new calibration routine just isn’t working

my scores make little sense and vary according to reasons that i just can’t make out

i am perhaps in a minority and didn’t mind the original calibration too much

i just want reliable scores and i don’t feel i am getting them

in a sense the answer is to get benefit out of muse and not worry about scores at all


#16

I feel I am having a fairly strong session


#17

listen to music while having muse session. calm % goes upto 95%


#18

The calibration is the weakest point of the whole concept. The device will give you 90% calm reading as long as you are not completely calm during the calibration. You must allow choosing calibration from any previous sessions. Please add such option into your software. I also think you MUST come clean about this problem and have a respective disclaimer. Your reputation is on the line.


#19

I’ve been using Muse for about a week, and my scores are all over the place. One day I’m 70% calm, and the next I’m 1%, though I see no significant differences in the time of day, my approach, or my subjective mental state. I’m willing to believe that the device is accurate and I’m just not understanding, but these widely varying readings are definitely making me question its accuracy.


#20

i’m feeling pretty much the same… very calm but my mind is going crazy and the reason why i think about searching for onlinepharmacyreviews.org or such sites because i need to get some meds as much as i can see. anyhow thanks for your answers people… i appreciate it a lot. found some useful info… my mental state is… strange to say the least, at the moment.